Interview for EPALE France with Vincent Donne, head of the professional training and skills project at France Stratégie

[Translation : EPALE France]

EPALE: Please introduce yourself.

Vincent Donne: I am head of the professional training and skills project at France Stratégie, a research and forecasting body reporting to the Prime Minister. I focus on career transitions and retraining, and on recruitment practices in companies. Before that, I worked for Pôle Emploi where I analysed employment systems abroad with a view to benchmarking and improving employment policies in France.

How would you define professional transition?

Vincent Donne: There are many different terms, such as “professional mobility”, “professional development” or “professional retraining”. Mobility means changing jobs on the labour market. This includes retraining, which involves a change of profession with no direct connection to the previous one. Professional transition refers to the process at work in this case, and is a state of transition for the individual. There are 1.4 million career transitions every year in France, representing 7-8% of people in employment. When the notion of transition is mentioned, it very often refers to a long process involving lengthy training leading to certification. We want to show that this process is not systematic: a huge number of professional transitions take place without any training or intervention from the public authorities, which is not in itself a problem.

What are the key issues in professional transition?

Vincent Donne: The first issue is a macro one: there is a huge need for professional transition due to the accelerating pace of economic change: the ecological transition, the reconfiguration of production in the wake of the Covid crisis, and digital challenges. Certain sectors have very significant needs: by 2030, imbalances by profession could account for up to a third of recruitment needs, and professional retraining will therefore be required.

In addition, individual aspirations of mobility are very high, and are thought to be on the rise, due to dissatisfaction at work relating to pay, job quality, new attitudes to work and, in particular, the quest for meaning. These two movements will not converge naturally. In the short and long term, in professions where there are recruitment needs, particularly in areas that serve the general interest such as education, health, the ecological transition, or professions related to the elderly, the jobs will not necessarily be filled because they are not attractive, because they are not always of good quality.

Labour market mechanisms alone will not resolve these two movements. Employment and training policies need to be anticipated and managed to meet strategic needs and the general interest.

A second important issue, which is less well publicised, is the inequality between individuals in terms of their ability to retrain, whether in terms of socio-professional category, gender or geographical location. Retraining requires resources, qualifications and knowledge of the job market. Those who need it most, because they work in arduous jobs or earn low wages, are not necessarily going to succeed in their retraining. Creating the conditions for equal access to successful transition is a matter of social justice.

What solutions are you advocating? Do we need to restrict the balance between community needs and individual aspirations?

Vincent Donne: Together with my co-rapporteur Coline Bouvart, and on behalf of France Stratégie, we are publishing a report on professional transitions next month, which sets out a number of recommendations. There are four main types of solution. The first is to strengthen the collective capacity to steer employment and training policy at national, regional and local levels. Transitions from one profession to another are by their very nature cross-sectoral and need to be supported at a local level, whereas in France these policies are managed on a sector-by-sector basis.

It is up to the politicians to decide how far to go in terms of restrictions. At the very least, we need to direct public resources towards the occupations we need most: by covering part of the cost of training, via the guidance system for adults, and by providing better support. By 2035, there will no longer be any internal combustion engine cars. It is up to the public authorities, in conjunction with the social partners, to anticipate and support people undergoing training, to identify sectors of activity and to facilitate pathways.

The second type of solution is based on strengthening support for individuals. While not all career transitions need to benefit from financial support, it is important to ensure that all those who need advice and support in defining a career plan can benefit from it, in much the same way as an advisor at Pôle Emploi helps people to find training, change jobs or move to a different geographical area, particularly for the most vulnerable and the least qualified.

The third point is that, in France, there are a huge number of schemes that provide funding for retraining, but there is no guarantee that this funding will go to the people who need it most, to the most vulnerable and to those who go into occupations that meet community needs.

There can be a tension between jobs in which there is a shortage of skilled workers, where recruitment needs are high, and jobs serving the general interest. This may also require the use of shorter courses, sandwich courses, and any type of training that is closer to the activity and the work.

Finally, the fourth and last set of solutions is based on developing skills and securing career paths, particularly for people in employment, within companies. This is the best foundation for professional transitions: people who undergo training are more mobile; this can also benefit companies, which can support internal and external mobility: employees who are more fulfilled, happier and have better skills are a benefit for both companies and employees. This means putting the issue of mobility at the heart of social dialogue.

EPALE: What is your definition of a skill?

Vincent Donne: A skill is a knowledge or aptitude that is expressed in a work situation - unlike knowledge in a purely educational context.

EPALE: What do you see as the key skills of the future?

Vincent Donne: Everything related to the ecological transition, even though the skills involved are still not very well defined: identification work is still in progress, as is the development of qualifications and diplomas. The ability to adapt to rapidly changing working environments will also be key. We often talk about soft skills without really defining what they are.